Waiting Until The Turn

Cnfuzzd:

Ok. I understand now where Spiders dilemma is on reraising the flop.

First: Waiting to raise on the turn is a play that you typically make both when A) you are trying to face the field with bad enough odds to make them either fold or make a large mistake, which raising on the flop will not do, and B) there are a number of outs which can cripple your hand, and no way to push the hands that those outs fit with out on the flop due to the nature of these players. All of this is done to protect your hand from all those little draws that small stakes players like to play.

However, this simply does not apply to this hand. First, you had no choice but to bet the flop, or you would have given a free card. When you bet, the player to your right made it two to go. So, the field has already been faced with two bets, and made thier decisions. Given your relative position to the flop raiser, it is unlikely that you will be able to face the field with two cold again, and even if you did, the pot is now large enough that most draws are not making a large error in calling. Even worse, you are faced with being checkraised by a virtually unknown hand, or giving away a free card.

So, due to this, protecting your hand has gone out the window. It is now tiime to think about VALUE. You are more than likely ahead here, and its time to get money into the pot while you are. You know that most of the field likes their hand, and that you have the best hand. RAISE RAISE RAISE. As an added benefit, there is a chance you will get the SB, who likely has top pair, to cap the flop, and face the field with two cold again, which may, but is not likely to, fold some out.

So why not wait until the turn to raise? Not only does betting/raising the turn do little to protect your hand, but it gives you all the right information at the wwrong time. It is almost never correct to raise for information, because any information you gain is usually worth very little, no matter how helpfull it may be. Since it is so worthless, you want to pay as little as possible to get it. Raising for information should be done on the cheap streets, so that you can use whatever you glean to maximize your perfromance on the more expensive streets.

I know you middle pair Nay-Sayers are out there talking amongst yourselves about how half the deck can cripple your hand, and why raise when there are two chance two have this tragedy befall. Fear Not!!! By 3 betting on the flop, you are sending out very strong information about your hand. Its likely that you can use this later in the game to either force your opponents to reveal the strength of their hands, or obtain a cheap showdown, which is something these hand love to get when a scare card pops up. Waiting to raise on the flop does none of this, AND lets someone take advantage of you blindly raising the turn like a drunken cnfuzzd.

there entity, i posted more.

peace

john nickle

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StellarWind:

There is another major objection to waiting until the turn to raise.

It usually won't work. Obviously raising the turn when SB has the best hand is not a good idea. So assume he has a small pair, flush draw, or OESD. Is he going to bet the turn for you? Not very likely. Not with a draw. Probably not with a seven after the inevitable bad card comes (they're almost all bad).

And there you are. You passed up your flop value raise for nothing.

This simple objection to the turn raise play has wide application and is often overlooked. Always ask yourself: will they bet the turn when I'm winning or just when I'm screwed?